FILE PHOTO - Mayor Reid Hamer-Jackson (left) and Coun. Bill Sarai (right) at a Kamloops city council meeting.

(LEVI LANDRY / iNFOnews.ca)

CONTENT ADVISORY

The "side show" on council looks bad on everyone.

That's what one Kamloops city councillor said to Mayor Reid Hamer-Jackson less than three months into this term as he secretly recorded a conversation that quickly escalated to a heated argument. What started with small talk and an effort to air out their issues on a Friday morning ended with shouting, carried mostly by councillor Bill Sarai, according to audio obtained by iNFOnews.ca.

"We never elected you as a fucking coach. Get that through your head," Sarai said on his way out of the mayor's office.

He wanted an apology after the mayor called him "a snake." The word "sorry" never left Hamer-Jackson's lips and two years after the election, it's not a word any of his fellow councillors are likely to ever hear.

The argument would be consequential, sparking two internal investigations into the mayor. Despite the damning findings of the widely reported Integrity Group report, Hamer-Jackson describes Sarai as the aggressor and continues to question how he was the only subject of the report.

Sarai never revealed the recording even existed until nearly two years later when he reduced the audio from almost seven minutes to 57 seconds. Even then, he refused to admit that he made the recording until he caught wind it was about to be released in full this week.

iNFOnews.ca previously reported on the contents of the recording and what led to it, but the edited audio was less than a minute long, hiding most of the context and all of the insults Sarai hurled at Hamer-Jackson.

Obtained Nov. 28 through a Freedom of Information request, a longer version of that recording reveals more about the spat between two colleagues and former friends and confirmed some of Hamer-Jackson's summary.

(Both versions of the recording can be found at the bottom of this page)

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Though Sarai spoke to another news outlet when he caught wind the file was to be released on Thursday, he still has not responded to requests for comment from iNFOnews.ca. That news outlet also did not mention iNFOnews.ca already reported in October it was Sarai recording the conversation.

The audio spans six minutes and 38 seconds with just a few brief redactions. The substance of the conversation starts when Sarai mentions a radio interview that morning where Hamer-Jackson said another councillor had already decided not to support his upcoming notice of motion. Hamer-Jackson told Sarai it was a suspicion gleaned from another matter during the last council term.

"That same person is on the team, so I'm just hoping they'll make a decision for the citizens of the community, not their own person issues," Hamer-Jackson said.

Sarai tried urging the mayor to set it aside.

"We've got to get to work as well though, right? All this stuff, it's a side show and it doesn't make any of us look good," he said.

They remained calm, but that's when Hamer-Jackson directed his frustrations at Sarai himself and it devolved from there.

Hamer-Jackson raised an email exchange in which Sarai suggested to councillors in December 2022 that they tell the public the mayor was skipping events he didn't want to attend. Sarai didn't deny it and accused the mayor of throwing him "under the bus" to other councillors and passing off last-minute duties, while Hamer-Jackson denied he dodged mayoral responsibilities.

There was no reasoning between the two as Sarai talked over the mayor and told him not to drop last-minute events on his fellow councillors.

"You know what you're problem is, Bill? You don't fucking listen," Hamer-Jackson said.

It was one of the last words in the exchange Hamer-Jackson had as Sarai asked him if he'd address the "snake" message and stopped listening.

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"You know what? I don't know what you're talking about — a 'starting lineup'? This isn't a fucking five-player hockey team... We're all the starting lineup. You got voted in just like we did. You're no higher than us. Your vote is the same as us," councillor Bill Sarai said as the argument reached its climax.

The the audio gets fuzzy as it sounds like Sarai is leaving the mayor's office, but he continues to shout. The councillor takes issue with Hamer-Jackson meeting with others before his fellow councillors.

"You're talking to people that didn't get elected before talking to us. How snake-y is that? We all know who sits in your office and who you get your advice from, and you throw us under the fucking bus," Sarai said.

Hamer-Jackson had been known to bring Deb Newby, a woman who helped on his campaign, to private meetings at city hall around this time, but it's not clear exactly who Sarai was referring to.

Around that time is when Hamer-Jackson said he had closed the door and Sarai leaves the building.

Sarai went to the mayor's office on Jan. 20, 2023, seeking an apology, he left hurling the same insult back at the mayor saying, "you're the snake." The conversation was a path to an investigation that concluded Hamer-Jackson had bullied and harassed top-level city staff.

Sarai previously refused to comment when reached for comment in October about a 57-second segment and did not answer when iNFOnews.ca attempted to reach him Nov. 28, the day the recording was obtained.

He was aware the file would be released at least a day in advance and spoke with Castanet Kamloops. Hamer-Jackson called it "damage control." Though he also spoke about the shorter recording with Castanet Kamloops last month, he did not admit to making the recording himself at the time.

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In September, Sarai sent Hamer-Jackson a brief clip of the audio, saying he was glad someone sent it to him. Hamer-Jackson later provided the brief clip to iNFOnews.ca. It clearly began in the middle of a conversation and ends just before the argument gets more intense and Sarai overpowers the mayor's voice.

Sarai's reluctance to admit it was his own recording led Hamer-Jackson to report the incident to police, surmising that it was possible a secret recording device was in the mayor's office. Police dismissed the matter and although Sarai refused to comment at the time, iNFOnews.ca confirmed it was his own recording.

According to Hamer-Jackson, Sarai "dodged criminal charges" because he didn't lie to police and admitted to recording the conversation himself.

Their yelling could be heard in the surrounding work areas and although staff members weren't directly involved, it sparked an internal investigation. The internal human resources investigation didn't lead to any direct consequences for either of them since no staff were affected, but it did spark the separate Integrity Group investigation.

Even after iNFOnews.ca reported that it was Sarai who made the recording, Hamer-Jackson wasn't prepared to let go of the possibility that there could still be microphones hidden in his office. His distrust of other city officials shone through as he revealed a tactic he used to keep track of whether people enter his office when he isn't around.

That was before Hamer-Jackson's newly-renovated basement office was completed and he was forced out of the mayor's typical city hall office. He has since continued to take appointments at his Tru Market auto dealership, a property that's currently up for sale just down the road from city hall.

It's now the second known secret recording to cause issues at city hall.

The other was a phone call between Hamer-Jackson and CAO David Trawin in the spring of 2023 and once it was revealed, council ordered the mayor to turn it over and created a new policy around secret recordings in the workplace.

Whether anything similar will happen with Sarai isn't clear and nearly every other councillor refused to comment when asked in October, other than Dale Bass. She said the recording with Trawin was regarding official city business, namely plans for the Noble Creek irrigation system, whereas the argument between Hamer-Jackson and Sarai was a personal spat.